tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post2688228375603845920..comments2024-03-28T00:36:19.403-07:00Comments on Rocketpunk Manifesto: Plot Twists and World TapestriesRickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-86989269561861199782008-02-20T05:14:00.000-08:002008-02-20T05:14:00.000-08:00Rick, have you ever read The Year the Yankess Lost...Rick, have you ever read The Year the Yankess Lost the Pennant?<BR/>The story is a version of the Devil and Daniel Webster and I think it's based entirely on a gimmick - that not even the devil can change an umpire's mind.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-11138933838914594972008-02-16T13:29:00.000-08:002008-02-16T13:29:00.000-08:00Now that is a good metaphor! And, of course, you'r...Now that is a good metaphor! And, of course, you're right about the long story not being carried by the literary gimmick, even if it sparks the original idea. As you know, long fiction needs to have several elements to be successful; depend on any one element and the story falls down. I enjoy these discussions; I learn so much!<BR/>Ferrell RosserAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-45603103174788951342008-02-16T13:22:00.000-08:002008-02-16T13:22:00.000-08:00Thank you, Rick.I'm working on my gimmick.Thank you, Rick.<BR/>I'm working on my gimmick.Bernitahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05264585685253812090noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-80653021840082318352008-02-16T11:54:00.000-08:002008-02-16T11:54:00.000-08:00Gimmicks carry short stories just fine - in fact, ...Gimmicks carry short stories just fine - in fact, most successful short stories hang on a gimmick in some form or other. It is long fiction that falls down if it depends on a gimmick.<BR/><BR/>Long fiction is like a long trip - the destination alone is never enough. What you really remember afterwards is the road trip.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-47253186901066325452008-02-15T11:55:00.000-08:002008-02-15T11:55:00.000-08:00Well, yes, character, plot, and setting are paramo...Well, yes, character, plot, and setting are paramount in any story. I agree with you on that point. However, I also think that to spark an idea for a story, you have to start somewhere and the literary gimmick is where most writers start from. But, yes, again, you are right about gimmicks not being able to carry a story. Sparking the initial idea, giving the story some spice, leaving the reader with intreguing thoughts;those are the real function of the literary gimmick. At least, that's what I've always been tought. I sometimes get caught up in what I'm writing and get overenthuseatic about things. I don't do enough revisions when posting to blogs. (I still like my stew metaphor for stories, though)<BR/>Ferrell RosserAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-53685412773326507402008-02-14T20:24:00.000-08:002008-02-14T20:24:00.000-08:00Ferrell - every story is full of gimmicks, includi...Ferrell - every story is full of gimmicks, including novels. It is certainly legit and common to use one as an opening hook. My argument is that the one thing gimmicks can't do is sustain the weight of a novel.<BR/><BR/>What sustains a novel is world building, where "world" includes the characters and immediate setting. Characters are what really carry most long fiction, but a rich setting in SF/F has much the same effect as good characters do.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-45358571261546973732008-02-13T12:57:00.000-08:002008-02-13T12:57:00.000-08:00Thank-you, I'll have to check it out. I like to re...Thank-you, I'll have to check it out. I like to read and write short stories.<BR/>Ferrell RosserAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-47378155871192857582008-02-12T23:22:00.000-08:002008-02-12T23:22:00.000-08:00If you like short stories, let me point you to the...If you like short stories, let me point you to the <A HREF="http://www.365tomorrows.com/" REL="nofollow">365 Tomorrows</A> website.<BR/><BR/>It's a collection of short stories, short shorts in fact, 600 words long. It's an amazing collection of different SciFi stories, some great, others, well, a nice short read.<BR/><BR/>I already have an idea for a short short, so I might end up there one of these days.Kedamonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00836433729316074598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-4879971327917480152008-02-12T12:47:00.000-08:002008-02-12T12:47:00.000-08:00I think that you are missing the point about liter...I think that you are missing the point about literary gimmicks, surprising for a writer. They form the basis of a story, whether long or short. When I write a short story, it is to showcase the gimmick. The gimmick in a novel is usually the starting point; you don't have to keep it throughout the story, even though most do. I know that a lot of writers view the literary gimmick as a spice in the stew of their stories. Without it, it may be too bland; too much, and it becomes unsavory. Most writers don't even realize they're doing it. I didn't until some one pointed it out to me. Talk about embarrassing! You're right, though, about the endings of most fantasy and SF; most of us are unsatisfied with them. But, then again, they do inspire some of us to write the stories we want to read.<BR/>FerrellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-73454158166198050402008-02-12T09:45:00.000-08:002008-02-12T09:45:00.000-08:00Carla - That is permitted, he said gently. Part of...Carla - That is permitted, he said gently. Part of the greatness of LOTR is that there is plenty for everyone not to like, and still find a whole lot more that they will.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you about the appendices. A created world is always like a movie set, false front buildings. It is the little touches that create the illusion - like paved-over streetcar tracks, giving a fake city the illusion of a past. <BR/><BR/>The also much maligned opening and closing sections in the Shire are also important, I believe, in ballasting Middle Earth, giving it an earthy substance.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-16178045062801684572008-02-12T02:32:00.000-08:002008-02-12T02:32:00.000-08:00I like some of Tolkien's poetry, she said in a sma...I like some of Tolkien's poetry, she said in a small voice.<BR/><BR/>I'm not familiar with <I>Dune</I> (heresy, I know, especially here). I agree that Tolkien's world is (several) streets ahead of many a fantasy world, and that's one of the reasons I gravitate back to <I>Lord of the Rings</I> time and again. His Middle-earth feels like a different world, rather than a shadowy version of ours. I think the much-maligned Appendices contribute to that.Carlahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11901028520813891575noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-26604876524456389842008-02-11T21:25:00.000-08:002008-02-11T21:25:00.000-08:00I thumbed through the hardcover at B&N, but I'd fo...I thumbed through the hardcover at B&N, but I'd forgotten the author and exact title. It looked like he essentially changed the names, then wrote the sequel Asimov should have - pretty cool. I should hunt it down; I suspect I'd love it. I did get the sense he'd textured the galaxy in a way Asimov only hinted at.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-84283638640427548932008-02-11T20:08:00.000-08:002008-02-11T20:08:00.000-08:00"It is too bad he didn't try the alternative appro..."It is too bad he didn't try the alternative approach of having the Seldon Plan simply run off the rails, or better yet fall prey to the inherent tension of prophesies - once people even partly work it out they can start gaming it."<BR/><BR/>Have you read _Psychohistorical Crisis_ by Donald Kingsbury?<BR/><BR/>Kingsbury's story is set in his own 2nd Empire run by psychohistorians. I think you can guess the nature of the crisis of the title from what I quoted from your post.<BR/><BR/>I might note that the richness of the background in Kingsbury's story is a major plus for the novelAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com