tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post1466778394587525183..comments2024-03-28T00:36:19.403-07:00Comments on Rocketpunk Manifesto: Rules of the RoadRickhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comBlogger54125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-32632315199208440972012-02-21T13:19:57.998-08:002012-02-21T13:19:57.998-08:00It’s always about control.It’s always about control.M. D. Van Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174316114122438921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-25665655301350044612012-02-18T22:31:14.544-08:002012-02-18T22:31:14.544-08:00Relatedly, recent reading strongly suggests that t...Relatedly, recent reading strongly suggests that the isolationism of both Japan and post-Qeng Ho Ming China wasn't the ostriching people often think they were, especially in the case of China. Japan never lacked contact: Dutch in Nagasaki, and Ryukyu, Ainu, and China/Korea in other ports. It was more about again, control and quarantine. Rangaku, 'Dutch learning', was a big field of study, especially after the first century.<br /><br />And Ming China was less "let's not trade" and more about "let's have a state monopoly on trade". Which isn't one of the great ideas of the world but is pretty common and hardly unknown in Europe: mercantilism, East Foo India Companies...Damien Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321329197063620556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-47664207952502063952012-02-18T19:27:15.788-08:002012-02-18T19:27:15.788-08:00"You can find just about every element on the...<i><br />"You can find just about every element on the periodic table in trace amounts in seawater."<br /><br />That doesn't make it economic to extract, especially if you need the element in large numbers (like if you're planning to use it as a structural material).<br /><br />Nanotech seeds that are meant to produce stuff made of metal will still need to be placed near a supply of ore to grow properly. Though they might use a tree-like root system to find the needed ore... <br /></i><br /><br />Of course. I remember being told in an earth science class back in jr high about how gold is present in seawater but it's not economically worthwhile to extract. You could spend a million dollars to get a hundred dollars worth of gold. To a kid who assumed a machine that could produce gold would be a literal money-making machine, the idea that you could lose money with it was pretty mind-bending. <br /><br />With a proper nano-seed, the question would translate directly to time. If you need 100kg of gold, do you mine it conventionally and spend a lot of money to get it quickly or do you use the nano method from the sea and spend a little money and energy to get the quantity after a very long wait? <br /><br />And just imagine if you apply nano-tech to mining. "Here's where we know a gold vein exists. We plant the nano-seed here. It grows solar collectors to power itself and then plunges roots all through the deposit and moves those atoms of gold up the roots to fruits that will grow on the surfcae pretty as you please." <br /><br />If you have the infrastructure for heavy machinery and strip mines then time is money and you might find it worth the cost to get the gold now. If money is very expensive, it might be worth the time to take the slow route to harvesting.jollyreaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05673007647719726846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-35604292890007984122012-02-18T13:21:49.762-08:002012-02-18T13:21:49.762-08:00The main reason for the elimination of guns during...The main reason for the elimination of guns during the Tokugawa Shogunate was social control. Firearms allowed anyone to be the military equal of a highly trained Samurai warrior, which devalued their training and social position. <br /><br />European Knights made similar objections to crossbows (which had similar equalizing effects on the battlefield), but since Europe was not "closed off" by geography like Japan, the idea of a ban never caught on, nor was there an agency that could enforce such a ban.<br /><br />A tech ban could only work if there was a physical and social analogue to Tokugawa Japan...Thucydideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828932214842106266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-23083581306917625972012-02-18T09:44:31.628-08:002012-02-18T09:44:31.628-08:00Interesting stuff about premodern Japan - thanks!
...Interesting stuff about premodern Japan - thanks!<br /><br />On nanotech, a key question is productivity levels. A good machine shop comes close to being a 'replicator' - it can manufacture pretty much anything, including a duplicate of itself. But if you specifically want, say, cars, a specialized auto factory is far more efficient!<br /><br />Lurking behind this is what in an earlier post I dubbed 'industrial scale.' Basically, how large a society do you need to maintain a given techlevel?Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-54431705669319753602012-02-17T14:26:57.171-08:002012-02-17T14:26:57.171-08:00=Milo=
Jollyreaper:
"You can find just ab...=Milo=<br /><br /><br /><br />Jollyreaper:<br /><br /><i>"You can find just about every element on the periodic table in trace amounts in seawater."</i><br /><br />That doesn't make it economic to extract, especially if you need the element in large numbers (like if you're planning to use it as a structural material).<br /><br />Nanotech seeds that are meant to produce stuff made of metal will still need to be placed near a supply of ore to grow properly. Though they might use a tree-like root system to find the needed ore...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-28578540000063445002012-02-17T08:33:33.137-08:002012-02-17T08:33:33.137-08:00AIUI, the Shogunate didn't so much eliminate g...AIUI, the Shogunate didn't so much eliminate guns as totally control them. Swords and guns were confiscated from the below-samurai classes, and the gunsmiths were centralized and put on state retainer, paid high prices for small orders from the state. Helped by lack of big game needing guns to fend off, lack of invading neighbors, and perhaps samurai caring more about swords than guns; Japan had quickly become very effective with very well-made native guns, but they hadn't been around all that long -- forty years between the first Portuguese guns in trade and Hideyoshi's "sword hunt", and another 20 years to Tokugawa centralization.<br /><br />A very impressive 40 years, mind you.<br /><a href="http://www.guncite.com/journals/dkjgc.html" rel="nofollow">See.</a>Damien Sullivanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13321329197063620556noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-50928401603212537682012-02-17T08:18:01.065-08:002012-02-17T08:18:01.065-08:00“One historical example comes immediately to mind,...“One historical example comes immediately to mind, and relates to this sub-discussion: The Tokugawa Shogunate’s pretty much successful effort (so I gather) to eliminate guns from premodern Japan.”<br /><br />And yet Japan was manufacturing some of the finest matchlock firearms ever made … in 1854.M. D. Van Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174316114122438921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-62065120614773785072012-02-16T19:52:38.873-08:002012-02-16T19:52:38.873-08:00We reach the old question of oxen vs. tractors or ...We reach the old question of oxen vs. tractors or horses vs. motorcycles. Which is cheaper, more practical? All depends on the relative tech level. An argument made for the logic of the Firefly 'Verse is that work animals would be more practical in a frontier setting because they reproduce on their own, grow their own parts, don't require an interplanetary supply chain. A settlement could breed their own spares more readily than they could build new tractors. Plus the animals eat fuel that grows on the ground rather than needing to be shipped in. <br /><br />Of course, there's a whole host of practical complications with live animals. The technology base required for manufacturing aside, I believe that the hourly cost in labor for a farm with work animals versus one with machines heavily skews in favor of machines, assuming fuel and a manufacturing base remain available. <br /><br />But the whole argument above ignores the giant question of the Second Industrial Revolution we could be living through in the 21st century, maker culture and all. I'm sure someone else thought of it somewhere first but it was presented well in Diamond Age -- the idea of nano-seeds, things that could draw material from the existing environment and, molecule by molecule, assemble everything you need. After all, a horse is basically just water and grass. You can find just about every element on the periodic table in trace amounts in seawater. With a proper nano-filter to pull out everything you need, could a colony grow the machines they need? <br /><br />Then that brings you right back to the idea of what would be legal and illegal to make with nano devices.jollyreaperhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05673007647719726846noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-56363572172930957092012-02-16T18:18:39.684-08:002012-02-16T18:18:39.684-08:00Hmm … Attempts to control technology could make an...<i>Hmm … Attempts to control technology could make an interesting topic for Rick in a future post. </i><br /><br />Duly noted! <br /><br />One historical example comes immediately to mind, and relates to this sub-discussion: The Tokugawa Shogunate's pretty much successful effort (so I gather) to eliminate guns from premodern Japan. It only ended after outside intervention.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-64272051386960555292012-02-16T17:04:56.084-08:002012-02-16T17:04:56.084-08:00Printed guns are an artifact of an increasingly li...Printed guns are an artifact of an increasingly libertarian culture of people who are gathering up tools, techniques and the will to simply "do" stuff on their own.<br /><br />Computer "hackers" (in the good as well as the bad sense) are perhaps the best known branch, but bloggers, "biohackers", home prototypers and others are using ever expanding abilites to bypass political, institutional and corporate "middlemen" to do what they want. This is hardly a new idea (hot rodders back in the 50's might be called "car hackers" today, and "hypermilers" are indeed a form of car hacker).<br /><br />Since powerful computers, lab quality equipment, studio quality video and recording devices and high grade machine tools are becoming cheaper and more available all the time; combined with dense webs of connectivity and access to reams of data, more and more people can pick up tools and start "doing" for themselves.<br /><br />Now there are very obvious dangers to this; people may injure themselves and others through an inability to use their tools correctly, or a lack of interest in the quality of the end product (underground chemists who synthesize drugs and hormones are notorious for this), or a lack of apprieciation for the danger involved (experimenting with pox or avian flu, for example). There are few obvious answers, trying to clamp down will only force this activity underground and we will see a sort of high tech Samizdat (the way we see underground trade in high grade performance enhancing drugs today).<br /><br />Perhaps the only true solution (if you can call it that) would be to emulate Jerry Pournelle's "Co Dominium", which corrupted databases not under CD control to prevent the spread of technology that might ecoomically or militarily undermine the CD powers.<br /><br />The libertarian solution would be the "fight bad speech with good speech" approach, and have a high tech Army of Davids attacking problems (perhaps with the incentive of a reward), for every evil genius creating a super virus there are 1000 tech hobbyists cooking up anti virals, immune system boosters or exploring metabolic pathways that can shut down invading pathogens. That would be inconsistent and scattershot, but at least a proactive means of dealing with the problem.Thucydideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828932214842106266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-20698055630554022192012-02-16T12:36:47.233-08:002012-02-16T12:36:47.233-08:00Milo, “printed” guns wouldn’t have to be terribly ...Milo, “printed” guns wouldn’t have to be terribly accurate, reliable, or durable for them to completely circumvent the kind of controls that are supposedly desirable.<br /><br />Hmm … Attempts to control technology could make an interesting topic for Rick in a future post. There is certainly a lot of interesting historical and meta-fictional ground to cover there.M. D. Van Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174316114122438921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-23759013699629832502012-02-15T18:24:41.259-08:002012-02-15T18:24:41.259-08:00Longbeast, if you are referring to Canada, Tony ha...Longbeast, if you are referring to Canada, Tony has a very valid point.<br /><br />The City of Toronto has long made use of draconian regulation to "fight gun crime", including closing down shooting ranges and gun clubs (which are pretty much the only valid destinations for urban gun owners in Canada), yet gun crimes escalated throughout the tenure of Mayor David Miller, who spearheaded and encouraged such efforts.<br /><br />Gun crimes eventually did fall in Toronto; <i>after</i> an international police effort closed out the Jamaican "Shower Posse" criminal gang.Thucydideshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09828932214842106266noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-21699284656913825482012-02-15T16:56:06.931-08:002012-02-15T16:56:06.931-08:00I need to find a new Mayan calender; the old one o...<i>I need to find a new Mayan calender; the old one only has 10 months left on it...</i><br /><br />This made me laugh! <br /><br />(And I guessed that MDvN's comment was re the election cycle. Actually, barring fluke you need only wait for about mid-November for the shouting and wailing to die down.)Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-77236582891855004952012-02-15T12:55:44.021-08:002012-02-15T12:55:44.021-08:00=Milo=
Guns have a lot of finicky small parts, ...=Milo=<br /><br /><br /><br />Guns have a lot of finicky small parts, especially if you want accurate aim and resistance to jamming. They'll be hard to make with 3D printers, even when other stuff can be.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-44041951135676514222012-02-15T09:18:31.996-08:002012-02-15T09:18:31.996-08:00Ferrell, I was referring to the end of the current...Ferrell, I was referring to the end of the current election cycle, but the end of the Mayan calendar will do as well. ;-)<br /><br />As for gun control, it is already a fool’s errand. There are hundreds of millions of firearms in circulation that with minimal maintenance will continue to function almost indefinitely. Now, imagine a plausible mid-future world where anyone can “print” many firearm components if not complete guns and where any interplanetary transport is potentially a weapon of mass destruction.M. D. Van Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174316114122438921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-20892379918701644332012-02-15T02:26:53.266-08:002012-02-15T02:26:53.266-08:00Civil servants who have personal animosities towar...<i>Civil servants who have personal animosities towards guns, gun owners, or both would be able to make gun ownership almost impossible, within their own jurisdictions.</i><br /><br />That doesn't happen much with licensing and sale regulation, partly because it's simply not a political issue here. It's not even a minor political issue. However... see below.<br /><br /><i>What are the rules on carrying it in public? (As opposed to keeping it locked in a box until you arrive at the sport shooting range, or the like.)</i><br /><br />This one depends on intent. You are allowed to carry a weapon in public if you have some reasonable purpose for doing so. If you're openly carrying a loaded weapon, and you try to claim you're just transporting it to somewhere else, that's not going to be considered reasonable, because it doesn't need to be loaded for that. "Just in case" is <i>never</i> accepted as a reasonable purpose. In practice this means that openly carrying weapons in urban areas is flat out banned. Out in the country nobody cares very much.longbeasthttp://mrp.ath.cx/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-15757516095803512872012-02-14T19:37:51.497-08:002012-02-14T19:37:51.497-08:00By 'regulation' I broadly mean keeping tra...By 'regulation' I broadly mean keeping track of weapons and how they are being kept. (I think the Swiss have <i>really strict</i> rules in this respect.) Banning certain classes of weapons is part of it, I suppose. <br /><br />But really I haven't thought much about how gun regulation 'should' work, because in the US it is such a culture war issue.Rickhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16932015378213238346noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-33153580540513079712012-02-14T16:40:39.139-08:002012-02-14T16:40:39.139-08:00M.D.Van Norman said:"I suppose that December ...M.D.Van Norman said:"I suppose that December can’t get here soon enough."<br /><br />That reminds me, I need to find a new Mayan calender; the old one only has 10 months left on it...<br /><br />FerrellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-75765874748312213932012-02-14T13:57:11.388-08:002012-02-14T13:57:11.388-08:00=Milo=
longbeast:
"Everything else is per...=Milo=<br /><br /><br /><br />longbeast:<br /><br /><i>"Everything else is permitted, but only if the user is a) licensed b) follows the legally required steps to secure the weapon and c) the owner can demonstrate that they still have the weapon if asked."</i><br /><br />What are the rules on carrying it in public? (As opposed to keeping it locked in a box until you arrive at the sport shooting range, or the like.)<br /><br /><br /><i>"You have to have a bolted down and lockable safe box to store a weapon and ammo. [...] A criminal who wants a weapon should not be able to steal one from a legitimate owner."</i><br /><br />A sufficiently talented criminal can pry open a bolted down and lockable safe box.<br /><br />Granted, this will at least stop pretty criminals.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-51987876822233474532012-02-14T13:03:09.638-08:002012-02-14T13:03:09.638-08:00I suppose that December can’t get here soon enough...I suppose that December can’t get here soon enough.M. D. Van Normanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14174316114122438921noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-49765250847864225342012-02-14T10:48:47.382-08:002012-02-14T10:48:47.382-08:00longbeast:
"The basic theme is: guns do not ...longbeast:<br /><br /><i>"The basic theme is: guns do not move around without the paperwork."</i><br /><br />The problem with such an "alles in ordnung" type system is that it's too sensitive to personal whim. Civil servants who have personal animosities towards guns, gun owners, or both would be able to make gun ownership almost impossible, within their own jurisdictions.Tonynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-17493798402973092922012-02-14T04:17:02.382-08:002012-02-14T04:17:02.382-08:00I'll make a brief appearance here to point out...I'll make a brief appearance here to point out how gun regulation works where I live.<br /><br />(I know perfectly well that trying to apply this kind of solution over in the US would fail miserably, and only serve to infuriate people. Just saying it works here.)<br /><br />A complete ban is only reserved for really dangerous stuff, like assault rifles or disguised weapons. Everything else is permitted, but only if the user is a) licensed b) follows the legally required steps to secure the weapon and c) the owner can demonstrate that they still have the weapon if asked.<br /><br />You have to have a bolted down and lockable safe box to store a weapon and ammo. If you don't have a secure place to store it, you're not allowed a gun. A criminal who wants a weapon should not be able to steal one from a legitimate owner.<br /><br />You're not allowed to lose your gun. It doesn't matter whether you've just carelessly left it lying around, or whether you've sold it on the black market, either way you've been incredibly irresponsible with something lethal, and it's a punishable offense.<br /><br />The basic theme is: guns do not move around without the paperwork.longbeasthttp://mrp.ath.cx/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-21278911098028786862012-02-13T23:14:40.704-08:002012-02-13T23:14:40.704-08:00Rick:
"Philosophically I don't think reg...Rick:<br /><br /><i>"Philosophically I don't think regulation of weapons precludes a free society, and they would be very tightly regulated in space."</i><br /><br />What exactly do you mean by regulation of weapons? Do you mean an all-out ban or only a ban on particularly nasty or dangerous weapons? In my mind, whether regulation of certain kinds of weapons precludes a free society depends partly on the spirit in which the regulation is done.<br /><br />If certain weapons are banned simply because they are felt to be to barbaric or dangerous, that doesn't interfere with the right to bear arms. Modern militaries today are subject to such rulings. Hollow-point bullets, cheap laser blinders, and nerve gas are all banned under the Geneva conventions. There are some weapons that that we don't want anyone to have.<br /><br />The United Federation of Planets should attempt to regulate or ban really nasty weapons or really dangerous weapons. This includes chemical agents and biological weapons, self-replicating weapons, etc. As far as personal arms go, it is best that you can't buy torture weapons, handguns that shoot capsules filled with nerve agents, thought-controlled explosive that could level a skyscraper, nanotechnology weapons, assassination weapons, etc. Personal possession of a phaser isn't the same as carrying around mechanical insects filled with botulism or a nerve disruptor designed for torturing people to death!!<br /><br />That's enough political discussion. Back to the science fiction!<br /><br />On reflection, the assumption that weapons will be totally unavailable in space may be wrong. Sure, you won't be able to get a rocket launcher or an assault rifle on a near-future spaceship. But what about concealable weapons, hidden weapons, weapons that don't look like weapons, weapons that break down into several innocuous looking items, etc.? Maybe that gold pen, a piece of my shoe, and that belt buckle that is actually a miniature power pack fit together into a lethal ultrasonic disruptor. That camera lens and pill box screw together to form a short ranged laser cutter that can slice a person in two. The floss in my bag is actually razor-edge monofilament wire. The possibilities are endless.<br /><br />Astronauts already carry small personal items, items that might actually be hidden weapons on a future spaceship. You don't need something with great range or destructive power- just a weapon that can be used to incapacitate or kill operating personnel or guards. The element of surprise will help. Those space guards could be in for a nasty surprise when they go to fetch the Evil Asteroid Pirates from the brig, if they didn't check their prisoners carefully enough!!<br /><br />Flame ware- how did I miss that spelling error???Christopher Phoenixnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-7494544263897150929.post-58689077391855489032012-02-13T20:07:52.832-08:002012-02-13T20:07:52.832-08:00The only reason that you'd bring M-16 or AK-47...The only reason that you'd bring M-16 or AK-47 variants to Mars would be that you'd think that the other group of colonists did. Unfortunantly, that isn't outside the bounds of possibility. :(<br /><br />FerrellAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com